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Post by Administrator on Apr 14, 2010 16:19:43 GMT -5
Alright, so perhaps people have seen what I'm doing in the battle pit of Poke Park with what is essentially a stamina bar. I feel this is something that can help battles run a lot smoother and help cut down on the possibility of people, well, not losing, because face it, you really can't argue that you've lost if your health bar is zip, zero, zilch.
Now, I do want to create a full system for stamina. For the sake of simplicity, all Pokemon will have the same amount of health (save for potential improvements like with items or something), and I'm probably going to have it based on level, but how much do you guys, as the members and the people that will be using this system, think is fair?
PLEASE NOTE, we are not doing full stats. Quite frankly, stats would drive me (and I'm sure most of the staff) absolutely nuts trying to keep balanced and whatnot, plus I'd have to make them for the Lanorae Pokemon and ehhhhh, just no. Stamina, however, is something that's easy to keep track of, and it's very much straight forward.
When it comes to damage, the amount their Pokemon takes will still be up to the roleplayer, as things can vary quite heavily in the creative world of a roleplay, we'll just ask to keep things realistic. Note that if your Caterpie gets run over, trampled, and repeatedly pounded senseless by an Onix he is not just going to lose one HP. Sorry, but I don't think he's Superworm.
Also, we will probably either be using this code: Click. Because it's amazing.
Discuss =3 [/blockquote]
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[Ronin]"
New Member
BURUPYAAA~
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Post by [Ronin]" on Apr 14, 2010 16:35:08 GMT -5
I think it's a good idea. I mean, it is a little sad that, say, Vaporeon would have the same stamina bar as an Espeon (since Vaporeon's HP is to die for), but not that big of a deal. Especially since everything else is so amazing, and it really will make it easier, and more fun, frankly, to do battle.
Two thumbs up
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Administrator
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Post by Administrator on Apr 14, 2010 17:14:11 GMT -5
Well, if there's a demand for it, it's possible to make a realistic HP system based on the base HP stat that wouldn't be overly difficult, and I'm more than willing to sort something out if that's what everyone wants =3 Though that'll be on a majority rule ssituation.
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Post by Spiderc on Apr 14, 2010 17:18:14 GMT -5
i really like the idea, as for different pokemon having different hp, maybe we could say pokemon with a HP stat between 80 and 100 (base stat) have HP=3*[Level]
just threw out random numbers there, but for the record, i have no problems with using stats
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Post by RATED R FOR REX on Apr 14, 2010 17:26:14 GMT -5
i've never liked hp bars, tbh, so i'm a little iffy on the idea. :c
because, idk, i feel like it's easier to cheat than otherwise? or.. idk if i'm making sense. spring break does that to me.
so...
thumbs down to hp bars. :c but thumbs up for ayra's ability to find kick-ass codes? :'D
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Administrator
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Post by Administrator on Apr 14, 2010 17:51:53 GMT -5
Alright, well, to make it more accurate then, Ayra hates messing with all the stats in roleplays xD Though I'm rather liking that system idea, Spider.
And can you explain how you find it easier to cheat, Rexy? In roleplaying experience, I've found that the people that just don't want to lose will keep saying "And Charmander panted heavily from exhaustion, but pushed on" over and over again to make it seem like they're allowing their Pokemon to be injured, while really forcing them to remain on the same exact situation. I've not had many issues with it on Lanorae per say, a few here and there, but on other sides I've modded there were members that were bad about it.
My main reasoning for using HP bars is that at least then they will have to place some obvious damage reduction, and once the HP hits zero then that's it. You may still have ridiculously long battles if neither party wants to lose, but they will end eventually one would hope.
Though I am interested to see more into your mind on the matter =3 [/blockquote]
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Post by RATED R FOR REX on Apr 14, 2010 18:27:06 GMT -5
i just hate hp bars in general. ...so maybe i'm biased. xD
actually, i was on a site where they used stats, but people monitored it themselves, and things kind of got out of hand. but i don't think having mods monitor the stats, because that would be wayy too much work.
on (some? most of?) the pokemon sites i've been on, the rules just stated that if a battle just got too long, a mod would just cut in and decide on the winner/loser--or whether it was a draw. i've never seen the problem with this, although maybe i haven't been on enough sites? D:
well, and hp bars are just another thing to worry about. especially if we have different hp for different pokemon. then we put in damage calculation--if we're going to have one?--and if it's up to the members, idk if everyone would really be fair. and it's whether people would just maybe skip adding damage to their pokemon (because i'm stupid enough to overlook if i did it or if the person i'm roleplaying with did it). then we work in what about wild/modded pokemon? D: ... idk, maybe i'm just making things more complicated than they really are. 'cos i have a tendency to do that. >>
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Administrator
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Post by Administrator on Apr 14, 2010 18:55:55 GMT -5
Well, we're mainly trying to become less mod-dependent. Currently that is what our system is, though as it stands, if a mod needs to step in then it's quite possible two people can just be stuck with a battle. I know in the past Lanorae, and on most other Pokemon sites, waiting on a staff member tends to be the bane of activity simply because we get busy, and at least this, as well as hopefully the new modding system, will help relieve that a bit xD
And don't worry about damage calculators! No no no, believe me, I don't want to even mess with those. I just trust that people will be realistic about things, and I'm sure if a problem arises someone would let it be known (getting blasted by Hyper Beam and thrown into a tree, lawl, minus one HP, wut?) Roleplaying will still work, for the most part, the same, just think of it more as a safeguard to help prevent ridiculously long battles.
And all the code is is [HP=#remaining/#total], so it's easy enough to just hurry up and add in should you forget, it's not like you have to past image codes in =3
And modded battles will work the same way, just this way you'll also know exactly how much energy a captured Pokemon has left so it helps relieve the chance of someone weakening a Pokemon to near fainting and then sending it out to battle as if it was ready and rearing to go.
I don't want to make this complicated, I really don't, though I do want to help people self-mod themselves a bit and, unfortunately, battling in my experience has been the main thing that needs to be watched. Hence why Happiness status was added in terms of loyalty and whatnot xD [/blockquote]
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Post by Miss Brightside on Apr 14, 2010 19:14:14 GMT -5
I'm liking the stamina bar, but I think it'll have to be more mod-dependent than we're anticipating. Just for us to keep an eye on it and make sure people are being honest, and we still need to end battles and the likes. I've known too many bad members and I'm too much of a cynic to think otherwise. =P
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Administrator
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Post by Administrator on Apr 14, 2010 19:18:13 GMT -5
Well, yeah, handing out levels we'd still have to do, though fortunately people moving on isn't quite as mod-dependent seeing if they want to get some roleplaying in we can always just say "Lol, here's your levels" a few posts later without holding much up.
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Post by #13 - Rymon♪♫ on Apr 14, 2010 19:39:40 GMT -5
I see the bar as just a fun little tool that we can use, but, for some people, shouldn't have to.
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Post by RATED R FOR REX on Apr 14, 2010 20:48:45 GMT -5
well, isn't that what battles are now? just people roleplaying, then mods hopping in to give levels? or at least, that was how rizu and my battle was like. maybe it's because i haven't been around lanorae much? D:
maybe we should wait before installing it?
but idk, now i'm just being a downer. xD LET ME RAIN ON YOUR PARADE, YES?
obtw, my caterpie is a superworm. so i don't know what you're talking about.
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Post by ♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥ on Apr 16, 2010 15:46:46 GMT -5
I know I mentioned the Willowvale College example to Ayra in PM, basically they use a site that generates stats for Pokemon according to their specie and Nature (along with level) and they have a damage calculator to tell you how much damage they make to another Pokemon. Very quick and easy really, the only math involved is subtracting – which anyone can do. Really, all the real math is done by the program, all it takes is a few clicks. The only attack not used was speed – though you could still take it into consideration as you role played to know which Pokemon would normally go first, if you wanted to be that picky about it all. =P
I know Ayra was against the whole shebang of stats thing, but I've seen it work wonders. Especially because damages are set. Just add a rule of a max of x amount of dodges here and a max of x amount of critical hits there and the members can basically take over no problem. It also helped when it came to modding, 'cause the mods could take on more people that way.
They just had to spawn the wild Pokemon, and then the member could take it away – and there was no possibility of cheating. Then just read over and check lightly to make sure the battle is right, reward exp and say if it's captured, if you got happiness rewarded or subtracted for x or y reason etc. Basically the outcome is always decided by the mod -- but the member can do all the role playing in one single (though probably reaaaaaally long) post. Then mod comes in, reviews and awards what's necessary (or what they deem fair to award) and either spawn the next Pokemon/Trainer/etc or let the member move on.
It helps journey move faster and better, and it's less stressful for the people in charge of modding.
Also, it makes Gym battle and NPC battles fair – hence avoiding people with level 10 Pokes defeating Gym Leaders (or trying to, at least) with Pokes on 20+ levels like I've seen in other places. There's no way to cheat it, and no way to /always/ win – you're eventually going to have to lose some, which adds for awesome character development. :3
In summary, I would probably love /any/ type of HP/Stamina/whatever system integrated (though those HP bars aren't exactly doing it for me fully XD), but I am the perfectionist type -- and would love for a full system rather than a partial one.
But yeah, just my two cents on the matter. XD Also, if needed, I'd be willing to provide an example on how would it move along in a battle or something for evaluating purposes. Just so everyone can see how the system works and whatnot. :3
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Post by Spiderc on Apr 16, 2010 16:58:16 GMT -5
i have to say i disagree with you on the 100% stats rizu, i think the occasional use of stats is excellent (head smash from rampardos is going to do more damage than head smash from aggron), but i really don't want to see lanorae turn into the URPG.
i really like that HP bars, but anything beyond that, is a bad idea imo. (by that i mean such and such attack will always do X% damage)
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Post by ♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥ on Apr 16, 2010 17:05:03 GMT -5
Actually the damage calculator there has three options -- from minimum damage, neutral to max damage the move can make -- just like in the game: the same move can sometimes hit for 10, 12 or 14 -- without being a critical hit. So it's not a 100% specifically set damage -- and it might not do the same to one Pokemon than the damage it would do against another, even of the same specie, due to the difference in stats by the Natures.
And it also factors in tail whips, rain, sun, etc that is out on the field -- along with the stats. That's why I like it so much.
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Post by Spiderc on Apr 16, 2010 17:10:07 GMT -5
yes, but natures are just one more thing that would make lanorae stat based, as, if you hadn't noticed, we don't have them. and natures aren't a variable, they're a constant (albeit, it's one that changes from pokemon to pokemon, but it's still a constant for specific pokemon)
i'm saying right now, if we start using a damage calculator to do damage, i'll be resigning as a mod, as this would no longer be an RP site
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Post by ♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥ on Apr 16, 2010 17:22:28 GMT -5
*shrugs*
I'll be honest, yes Pokemon has limited natures: but in an Rp you can develop sub-branches of those natures. The only thing the specific Nature would be used for it for the stat getting, nothing more. And your only “clone” stat-wise only, would be another Pokemon of the same specie with the same basic “trait” you could call it, since the Natures will no doubt still vary.
That's because the role player's the one that writes it out, that's why they can still be unique. And there's no constant Natures in Pokemon, no specie is stuck to a limited amount out of the 24. And, like I said, you can view them as “traits” instead of natures, and let the players create the natures they want – keeping in mind the trait.
All I know is that it would make Mods' job a whole lot easier and less stressful on them – especially when the site hits a butt-load of members (that I'm sure it will) and mods would otherwise be struggling to try and keep up with the billion threads. I only have two characters, and I think I have 5-6 threads running in total. Imagine 25 members with 5 threads each at the same time.
125 threads to be looking out for. Naturally there wouldn't be enough mods to keep with all that. Now, give the players a basic formula to avoid them cheating and let them role play out the main events and wallah, more free time for Mods to take care of more members and other needed stuff – like special activities, plot, etc.
Willowvale once did the same thing, no stats no nothing. They added it due to necessity, and frankly it works wonders. The only downside is that they use a different HP system, which doesn't keep up with the stat calculator and thus makes it easy to KO Pokemon in three turns or so, but that's due to a change they made.
I think it would be worth a shot, see how it works. If it proves to be that horrid then take it out and try something else. But trying something new never hurt anyone – and I think you can still have a blast role playing while using this system. In fact, you might even have more fun than before – since one battle won't stretch out for days and days without end, but instead it moves at your pace mostly.
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Post by Affectionate Zombie on Apr 19, 2010 17:32:36 GMT -5
I am not terribly enthusiastic about the idea of a HP bar, or using stats at all. I do like Rizu's idea, but at the same time, I feel like that takes out the ROLEPLAY aspect of a battle. And using a health bar would work if it was possible to fairly calculate out damage dealt, but that would be too difficult and subjective WITHOUT using stats and such, which no one seems eager to do. idk.
That doesn't mean I'd be averse to TRYING it, but... I'm not sure how great it will work, I guess? x]
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Post by ♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥ on Apr 19, 2010 18:59:36 GMT -5
((Yes, where the Pokemon name is there's supposed to be a sprite -- the site just uses keywords to have the site replace them for the image instead of having to loor for the image urls each time -- and I was being lazy so I dodn't want to fetch sprite urls. XD))
To give you all a general idea on how this would look, here's an example post from Willowvale with my character, Rosa Blanche. The mod spawned a Buizel and Bidoof for me -- and this is how the battle sequence went along with the stat/damage thing.
Since they're all low leveld Pokemon still battles usually go quite fast -- though it also has to do with their HP system, it's a bit off compared to the stats and stuff. Using the HP the stas generator give shouldn't be too different from the ones here at the beginning, though in the long run give the Pokemon much vitality than the math system they're using. But yeah, mainly just an example to show that role play isn't sacrificed for tats -- they're there mostly for guide lines and to know when your Pokemon, or the foe, can't go on any longer.
I still say the role playing is just as fun -- if not even more enjoyable since the member can complete the whole battle in a post (or two or three, depending on them) without having to tie the mod down to constantly update. It frees staff to be able to work on other things aside from moderating, and over all it makes everything go at a quicker pace.
I can't remember how many times I've been in role play sites that it takes months, almost a year sometimes, to get at least 2 badges and your Pokemon to semi-decent levels (20s to 30s). I love role playing, but I don't like slow snail mail pace. XD
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Post by Affectionate Zombie on Apr 19, 2010 19:07:28 GMT -5
That's the thing, though. It doesn't feel like roleplaying so much if you alone are writing out the whole battle. While it's tough to have the mods take care of all the wild Pokemon/gym battles, I think it would be terribly dull to finish a battle all by your lonesome and have to do it all yourself. It's like writing a really short story that has no plot except "FIGHT NOW!"
I don't have a problem with slow-paced roleplaying, so maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have a thread that takes a long time than have to churn out a huge post to cover a single battle and not have someone else there to do it with. :V It takes away the fun, roleplay aspect, in my opinion.
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