THE MOVE.

[RATED R FOR REX]

okok, this is what ayra said on the cbox, so we don't lose it.

I'm aiming to reopen completely by the 26th =3 Though there's a major thing I've been working on behind the scenes with input from a few of the staff and whatnot. And, actually, seeing it's almost completed anyway, I might as well post a teaser. This is what I've been working on. Actually, the content is almost completely finished, I'm just waiting for the databases to be put back up so I can finish the shops. I wanted to make sure everything was, for the most part, done before I opened it officially, that way roleplaying can start immediately. All active threads and everything are going to be moved over as well, so it's going to be a very fluid and easy transfer (unlike the sloppy, all over the place attempts before) but yeah.

intro page: lanorae.spleafnet.com/index

I apologize, but after it was determined the new AR is going to be extremely stable with the new company, I had to leap on it again. I was in love, basically ^^;

And actually, once I start moving threads over (a few days or so before opening), I'm probably going to go ahead and make accounts using Proboards usernames and a simple password (I'll pm everyone the password who needs it), then I'll post replies on those accounts, so everything will be on the correct account and everything. So if anyone wants a specific username for a specific character, please contact me at some point before, lets say, the 23rd.

aaand, i think it'd be best not to discuss it on the cbox, so i made this thread. go rex~ see, i do have good ideas. c:

but okay, so what does everyone else think about the move? i did some reading and apparently spleafnet is almost exactly like acornrack, for the few people who got to test out ar lanorae before acornrack, well, died.

i, personally, would rather not move? only because now i'm attached to pb lanorae and would rather not risk losing anything/everything i worked on here. especially since the pb table codes are a pregnant dog to try and use. ;D and i'd rather just stick where i am. andand, like, idk if i said this before when we tried acornrack, but i rather like the simplicity of proboards. the only time i'll accept anything other than pb is if you tell me we're moving to invisionfree. but that's 'cos invisionfree has dohtml tags. and i'm rambling. simplicity > any of these newfangled shit that all these sites are starting to have. so long as it looks pretty and i can find what i want, i'm rather set. and i'm not trying to downgrade any of the work that ayra did ('cos that shit is awesome coding) but idk, it just looks like more things added on and it'll just be more loading time and yeah. plus, steampunk > the blue layout (forgot what it's called, don't judge me), b/c i think steampunk is the theme of lanorae now? aaand as a last little note, i don't like the whole "~smooth transition" of the boards. like. just because i'm anal. pff.

okok, but that's just my opinion. go discuss~ ;D

[Administrator]

Relax Rexy, I'm not going to shoot you xD I'm just going to go through and address some concerns and whatnot.

First off, concerning the skin, I'm not getting rid of the Steampunk one completely. It is going to be back, just the blue skin (or, well, blue green now, I redid it and it's much prettier and cross-browser friendly now) was made to go around the plot. I really want to experiment more and capture the Steampunk style better when I remake that skin, because, well, the shades of brown isn't doing it for me. I need to find some way to get more colours in, like rust and oxidation and whatnot, so I want to experiment.

Concerning loading time. I've actually been comparing it and, on my computer at least, it loads faster than Proboards. That is because I can make the layout directly with CSS and divs rather than having to sit here using Javascript to move everything around. Yeah, I have mentioned Proboards v5 in the past and how that may be possible, but quite frankly I'm getting tired of waiting. And when it does come about all the work I did on here with the Javascript and whatnot is going to be obselete because none of the codes will work. The enhanced UBBC code is going to end up broken (meaning all broken tables), and most of the other stuff isn't going to work.

I'm sure the staff on Proboards is working hard, but they've been going on about v5 for I think almost five years, and there's been very little progress on it. There's no release date or anything. The primary reason I want to move back to SpleafNet is for the sheer freedom. It's basically I have a clean slate and I can do what I want with it rather than having to build around a set template. It's easier for me to add things people want and to troubleshoot where I need to because I wrote pretty much all the coding on the site.

I'll admit that even when AcornRack was bought by SpleafNet I wasn't going to move back. I was iffy about it because I thought "Well, it'll just be tossed on the back burner", but they actually want to put effort into completing the Beta (that's what AcornRack was initially), and are actually concerned for everything to run smoothly. The company that's now hosting it is well-established and has been around for a while, and several people who are now running SpleafNet were members and have emotional attachment. I'm confident nothing will be going anywhere, because they aren't concerned about money.

To be honest, if I had the time I'd just buy our own server and build the site that way, however, my skills are still amateur at best. All the nitty-gritty details in programming are included, so it's literally you just build and alter.

Proboards, unfortunately, is meant to be simple, and I know you mentioned you like simple, in some aspects I do as well, but when it comes to designing I adore the fact I have total control and can put everything I envision right on screen exactly how I see it. Unfortunately, the more I learn about coding the stronger that adoration becomes. Anymore, I've been starting to get plain frustrated with Proboards because of how many work-arounds you have to use to get that same freedom.

But yeah, that's sort of my reasoning behind it. And really, if nothing else, I have no issues of regularly making back-ups of stuff if that makes people feel more secure. I've already been doing that with all the coding and whatnot.

[Miss Brightside]

If I come off as angry or snippy or whatever in here, I'm not trying to be. I'm just gonna keep this as sweet and simple as I can.

I don't want to move. I've been trying to convince myself that it was an okay thing, but I just don't want to move. I'm not even going to list all my reasons because I don't feel like seeing you combat it to try and convince me. There is no convincing. I just like it here. And I don't like the idea of moving again. AcornRack was nice, but I really couldn't figure a lot of it out. I feel like everything I've done here is for nothing, now. Everything you've done, everything Rex has done... all worth shit. Not that I think that's gonna matter much, but hey.

I'm not going to start drama. I'm not gonna fight you over this. I'm not gonna leave over this. I'll go to SplitLeaf and make the best of it. But I am disgruntled. I am put off. Especially because it feels more like an order than a group decision, like you kept saying it would be. I just... I dunno.

Gonna go get some coffee, now. Peace out.

[RATED R FOR REX]

i don't know. i still don't want to move. i'm sorry ayra, but, idk, i just don't want to move. i like proboards. i don't want all this new stuff. i think that the heart and soul of a roleplaying forum is the roleplaying. character development, and interaction. not a pretty layout, though it's a nice thing to have. i like the proboards forums. that's what they're known for and that's why so many people use proboards for roleplaying sites. and while i know people also use acornrack for roleplaying, i absolutely hate their forum system. and since spleafnet is basically the same as acornrack, i'm guessing that i'm going to hate their forum system too, and if i hate the forum system, i don't know if i'm going to be able to enjoy the roleplaying. like andi, i'll probably stick with it, but just because of livia/jamal if anything now.

i know, i'm being a douche right now. but it's how i feel. and i'm a member here, so i feel the staff should kind of consider how their members feel? b/c a site is nothing without its members. pff idk, shoot me or something, idrc. but like, i agree with andi when she says it's more like an order than a group decision? i mean, if we all voted and the majority said i'd rather move to spleafnet, then yeah, most of my argument is now moot point and i'd be fine with moving. but if it's just ayra and her staff (who i barely see on, js) then i'm still a little iffy about moving.

kayso, now i'm addressing ayra's points.

i don't mind the steampunk skin now. it's just a little dark and dull, but i think that's the point of steampunk? i mean, you rarely see bright colors when you see steampunk. you see brass and copper and browns. neutrals. and experimenting is just changing css colors, so... i don't know. as a fellow skinner and coder, i just don't understand what you're trying to say, ayra.

as for the loading time, i think part of the proboards loading time is some of the things you added to it? like the profile on the sidebar (which, again, is a nicety, but i don't think it's super necessary for a roleplay forum) or some of the additions to the forum itself. like the 'like' buttons? i didn't even know we had those until i saw that spider "liked" your post. and even then, i think the like button is totally unnecessary, especially on a discussion thread. then lanorae turns into something like facebook with popularity contests and "i like her and i hate you" and i can just tell it'll get out of hand. or maybe that's just me being pessimistic, idek. but what i see is that you, or we, i guess, can't complain about proboards loading time being slow when you add these things that some members didn't even know existed.

well, one, if they're taking so long, we don't have to worry? and two, when v5 comes out, i'm sure lanorae isn't the only site to get affected. i know a lot of people who use proboards all the time and they have gorgeous sites that have been going on for a long time, and when i asked them about it, they just told me that it's inevitable and that they'd just deal with whatever it was, because the like proboards. i just don't think that the v5 is a valid argument, because again, lanorae isn't going to be the only site affected by this. and i actually read up a little on proboardsv5, and the staff said that they'd actually make the advanced tables a part of proboards. with even better attributes and make them easier to code. so i'm not too worried about my table codes. however, that's only because then i can always go to fix it. i just don't want all of my work to go to waste. like i said, the table tags are a pregnant dog to try and use. anyone who's tried knows what i'm talking about.

no offense, but money is always going to be a problem. if they're not worried about it at all, then i would be a little worried. and if we're talking about reliability, then i'm just going to point over a probaords again. they've been around for a long time and haven't sold their company off because of money. also because spleafnet is new, i'm just worried that it's not as reliable as they say they are.

i hate repeating myself, so i won't (or at least i'll try not to), but again, a roleplay site is for simplicity's sake. on all the sites i've admined, everyone was fine with a pretty layout that fit into the given template with pretty graphics. no extras needed. of course, i've only ever really admin'd if sites. but the one pb site i did admin didn't really prove to be that restricting. and the template wasn't that hard to create and everything was very simple. no like buttons. no sidebar profiles. no one complained. no one asked for more, because everyone was fine with just roleplaying. i know lanorae's all about being unique, but sometimes, too much really is too much.

it's not the regulary backups that bother me. it's how you're going to transition over the boards. it totally gets me. like. as a personal thing. it's obviously not a big thing, but just so you know. i talked to andi, b/c for some strange reason all my roleplaying's done with her, idek. and we agreed that we'd do our own thread moving, if we do move to spleafnet.

okok, so not everything i said here is completely honest to god facts. because i'm not a pb-kid, i'm an ifgeek. but i guess if we ever do vote, i'd rather have everyone get the argument from someone who wants to stay and someone who wants to move. so it's ~fair and unbiased.

oand, i just want to add that not all of the lanorae staff knew about this move before ayra announced it on the cbox. i mean, i did, but that's because i'm a nosy prick. apparently, andi first heard it from me, but that's because i talked to her about it with the assumption that she knew because she was a mod which i believe makes her a staff member. just pointing that out.

what the french toast. okok, i think i deserve three post counts for this. ocean out, yo.

[Administrator]

I'm just going to respond in random order. First off, I didn't mean for it to sound like a demand, that's not my intention at all. I apologize if I came off that way. Also, I thought for sure I talked to all the mods at the very least. I haven't seen Liz around and I really have no way to contact her, hence why I didn't say anything there, but I did talk to Spider and I thought for sure I talked to Andi. She's normally the first person I talk to about these things =< I'll be kicking myself if I really didn't mention something.

The reason I didn't come out straight away is because I figured it would have been easier to at least have everything established before I made an announcement of any sort. That way I could at least give an estimate of how long it would take rather than going "Hey, gonna work on that, give it a week or so".

Concerning the skin, the way I skin is I basically make an image in Photoshop of how the layout would appear. Literally, when I code a site from scratch I translate a solid image, slice it, and then code it in so it appears as I drew it. I find it to be much easier, hence why I talk about experimenting. Some people are amazing at coding and inserting colours on a whim and just altering a few things here and there, and I commend them on that, but I can't do that and be satisfied with it as a result. That may be why I'm not completely happy with the present Steampunk skin, because I did everything on it largely on a whim.

Regarding the coding, in particular the like/dislike thing, that was something I had inserted at one point to see what it was. It just slipped my mind to take it out again ^^;;;

I don't want to make anyone unhappy. That is the furthest thing from my intention. I didn't think there would be this much opposition to the idea, and that was insensitive of me. Feel free to kick me for it or whatever.

However, I am always going to be preoccupied with layouts and what not. Rex, you're right when you say that appearances aren't a big part of roleplaying, but I'm a perfectionist in that and that's something I always will be, with anything I make. Do appearances matter much to me when it's someone else's work? No. Quite frankly anything anyone makes is amazing in its own way, I just have a bit of an obsession when it comes to pushing myself to achieve something.

If you guys don't want to move then I'll see about moving some layout coding and whatnot here and try to play with different ideas about making different pages and things like that. Different web pages (and I don't mean like how the Codex is right now, because quite frankly I'm not fond of how that works right now) are something I really would like, and I'm not keen on just throwing things in a thread.

I'll go through and see about taking coding out as well. See what's not needed. I may just remove all the coding save for the money code to see if I can get a less-coding-involved work around thing.

[♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥]

Oh gods, I'd jump to spleafnet thing without a second look back. Ayra really had a lot of freedom there -- and HTML isn't as hard as it looks. And I think you were able to do HTML in AR, just with different tags.

Then again, lately I've been having fun researching html, so maybe that's just me.

All I know is that I liked AR/SN a lot more than Proboards -- it felt unique because Ayra could literally edit everything. One of the main reasons I help back from doing any kind of posting around here was in, faint, hope that AR would be revived with more glory and we could move back there.

Like everything, it's complicated at first -- I remember Proboards and Invisionfree where hell when I knew of them for the first time. But you get used to it. Chamge is scary, but it's often more good than bad.

And in the end, there's no point in staying in PB if Ayra feels constricted or just can't get her creative juices going. Yes, roleplay is a big part of a roleplaying forum -- but if the admin can't express herself to her fullest (in Ayra's case through coding and stuff) then she's going to be miserable. Maybe not too much at first, but it will slowly build up more and more... ANd then one day she just might give up on it altogether -- because it's frustrating. And yes, we might sa "no, that'll never happen -- lanorae's her baby"... But precisely because it is her baby I know Ayra will eventually get more miserable and depressed.

I know I did when I didn't knew a thing about coding tables in HTMl. I had to d a billion tricks for something to work -- and it furstrated me as hell. And then I learned the little details, short cuts and the like -- and now I love it to bits. It's no longer a huge pain in the ass (maybe a little one sometimes XD) becuase if I cn think it and plan it I can make it into an HTML table. Sure, there's a few things I don't know yet, but that's part of the whole experimenting and trying new things.

That's my cents at least.

Oh, Ayra, add Liz and me to your MSN -- Liz is usually on it. :3
I'll PM the e-mails to you.

[Affectionate Zombie]

Big posts everywhere! Damn, I feel like this one is like, a disappointment because it will undoubtedly be tiny.

But honestly, I liked AR for what little I saw of it, if only because there WAS a lot of freedom. I felt sure Ayra could have worked out the bugs and polished it and made it awesome, and now that there's the chance this will wind up happening, I admit I'm excited and curious. The only thing I didn't really like about AR was the forums, mostly because I didn't know how to work the coding haha. Also I didn't really like the forum layout and everything, but ah, well. I suppose I would have gotten used to it, and still could if the need arises.

I like PB, it's tried and true, but I also am SERIOUSLY CURIOUS about this spleafnet thing. In short, I would be willing to move, though I humbly request that IF WE DO that someone walks me through how the hell to make my posts all pretty like everyone else's, because I am fail at coding in all of its shapes and forms and need to have my hand held, sob sob. :'[ And if we don't move, I am totally chill with that, too, though I would feel really bad about it; I'm sure you've done a LOT of work, Ayra, and staying on PB when you've coded everything for spleafnet would just heap more onto your plate.

[Administrator]

Well, a lot of the basic layout I could probably move over without too much issue, just a lot of the "cute little quirks" (ie the Pokemon team display where it shows the Pokemon's info when you hover over them) would no longer have a point and would just need to be removed. At least I think it would be Proboards compatible, The thing that I think would probably throw me the most is the fact you need to build around the Proboards ads. So there may be issues there.

And if I needed to I could probably convert boards to blank pages, hide them, and then make them link-only accessible as far as web pages go.

Though, I really am curious as to what's disliked about the forum system? The lack of UBBC coding is one thing, I understand that, though if it's as far as layout and such though, that's completely customizable as far as aesthetics at least.

Currently the could is 2 no, 1 yes, and 1 doesn't matter. I'm not sure if maybe I should start trying to move stuff over here or what, seeing I really would like to open by the 26th either way.

[RATED R FOR REX]

bahaha. just reread over my post and realized how ;asldkfj it was. pff. bad mood? idk. well, i'm still putting my vote for staying here, though, like i said, if the majority would rather move on over to spleafnet, then i'll be fine with it. c8

oh, but like, just as a quick note, the music on the public page scares the bajeesus out of me every time i open it. usually because i'm listening to music and this creepy undertone starts. D8 but like, that might just be me. xD

i'm guessing the question about the forum system is directed at me? and even if it's not, i'mma answer it. >c
but one of my biggest aslkdfjas;lkdfj about the ar boards is that there definitely wasn't a preview button. and like, i kind of live off of preview buttons. 'cos i'm srsly ocd about making things pretty before i post. idk, it's like your layouts, i guess. 8D i don't mind the lack of ubbc at all, i'm an html freak. but although, for people who are used to pb might definitely get confused. though i'd be happy to help anyone who is. js. ;D
and my main thing, though it's really weird, i know, is that the ar forums switch up the ordering everytime something's posted. which, to me, might screw things up. actually, that would screw things up for me. 'cos i'm huge on visuals. >c b/c what happens is that if i have category 1 with forums a, b and c, and someone posts in forum c, then now it's ordered under category 1 like so: c, a, b. it moves forums around. it's always bothered me, and i had to leave two awesome ar forums because of it. pff. i'm so anal. :c

mmmm. i'm just going to paint now. >c and loose brain cells from sniffing turpentine whooooo~

[Administrator]

Well, the whole "forum switchup thing" is actually set by the administrator. You can choose to fix the forums loops so they stay. Though, I'm not going to lie, the fact there was no preview button was something that threw me off. I may be able to code one in, though I dunno, so that may take some experimentation.

And the music is supposed to be creepy >3 It's like "YOU ARE GOING INTO THE DEPTHS. GET READY TO SWIM FOR YOUR LIFE" sort of thing. Mood setter for the plot, you know? x3 It may not seem that dark now, but it will be. Oh, you better believe it will be. Muwahahahaha.

I'm not going to deny by any means that Proboards's forum system is a heck of a lot better, though I think that's due to the fact that Proboards is focused on forums, while SpleafNet is focused on on a website/forum combo and the idea that everything's customizable. If it was purely a forum vs forum thing, I'd go Proboards all the way.

However, on that note, AR was never actually completed. It's in Beta, Olly and Chris never finished it before selling it, and the new owners have stressed that they do want to finish it. That's one of the reasons they're shutting down the AR1 system completely (because it was so full of bugs and security loopholes), so they can focus completely on AR2 aka SN.

I am going to start moving some coding and whatnot over here though. Kinda work on both sites, that way no matter which option we decide it's not an "OMG SUPER SCRAMBLE GET IT DONE" situation.


EDIT: Not as easy as I first thought. Forgot you can't use "Enter" in javascript write functions. Meaning I can't have different div orders and whatnot for different skins without making it ridiculously hard to edit.

[#13 - Rymon♪♫]

Okay, here is my input. We should stay. Even though SN has endless possibilities, it has many complicated things, like the forums. I was looking at them right now and saw/remembered that posting & making new threads were weird, and without preview, it is a shot in the dark. also the weird categories and threads confuse me so, and we all know I am as confused as it is.

And I saw someone said something about ads? I actually like the ads on PB because they are like a nice big thing of padding. I can scroll up/down more so what I am looking at is almost dead center in the page. And the ads on the SN Lanorae sorta, at least to me, stick straight out like a sore thumb, or a bloated whale.

And about the HTML possibilities. You know how easy it is to make a whole page disappear with really basic coding that might not be able to be undone so easily. It's like a murderer on the interweb that hates Lanorae.

But yeah I do see how you could be constricted with PB, get tired with it, start not liking Lanorae, and pull the plug. And as a counter example, you could think of it as a challenge that helps you learn more about coding. =p I don't really know... okay I think I'm done =p

[Liz]

We should move.

I mean, I get everyones opinions on the matter, but personally, I'm not too fond of Proboards anymore. Blame it on me spending an eternity on Willowvale, AKA Invisionfree, but coming back from that to proboards is like moving from a penthouse suite to a common motel. To me.

Personally, I loved AR. It looked pretty, it worked like a charm as far as I was concerned, I didn't have any complaints about it whatsoever. So. Yeah.

Two cents. I put them in. Sort of.

[♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥]

I don't think PB is a coding challenge... More like let's kill your liking for coding all together since you have to do so many shit for it to work -- instead of three easy steps.

And I'll be honest... The new layout is f**k**g with my mind, I feel ten times more lost than when we were in AR.

So yeah, I totally vote for SN.

Also, the forums were still in a real crude state, since Ayra was focusing more on the main body first of the place, I remember she said it a few times, and even then I still liked them a lot.

So yeah, my vote is for SN, everything looked so much better and I dunno... ProBoards is just so outdated to me already. I dun like PB anymore, haven't liked it for years. Only reason I joined Lanorae in PB was because I knew Ayra makes epic things... But yeah.

And to my reference...

Yes to Move: Liz, Rizu
No to Move: Rex, Andi, Rymon
Curious and willing to try: Zombie

[Administrator]

Mm, how is the layout messing with your mind, Rizu? This is the exact same layout we'd have either way, so if you could tell me what's wrong with I could try and fix it. If it's the fact I'm sort of integrating Proboards forums in with a FreeWebs website so it's more in-depth and whatnot, no matter what sooner or later I'm going to have an easily accessible sitemap where everything can be accessed easily.

I've accepted I'm not going to make everyone happy. So far, it seems like (still) the majority want to remain on PB, and I have actually convinced people from SN that didn't like Proboards at all to give it a try for the sake of the site.

I can't really go back and forth on this forever seeing it's absolutely necessary for me to get a move on and work on the content if I want to get things done on the 26th and avoid making it "just another date Ayra promised something and didn't deliver". I've started to adapt and whatnot, and I have managed to get enough work around that I'm, for the most part, pleased with the level of customization I'm getting due to the integration/combo of a Webs/Proboards dual-site thing.

Right now, from what I can tell Proboards lacks the custom profile fields, customized profiles, HTML, and the capabilities of a shop system. I've started to work around the lack of a shop system. It's still pay-by-post, but at least it looks nice xD If necessary I can install cross-fury to get the custom profile fields. I can't do anything about the HTML unfortunately, but it was mentioned that there would be an update to allow more customization table-wise with UBBC.

If you could specify what exactly is more primitive, I can do my best to fix it. I kind of have to make a decision now and stick with it if I have any hope of finishing the site (especially seeing I'm going to be gone camping for about three days starting in about two hours).

I'm not going to deny the fact I'm stressing out about not being able to come to a decision that ends in everyone being happy, but yeah =< At least I managed to alter the skin enough that it's not really a typical Proboards layout.

[♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥]

I dunno, it's probably ;cause it's different than before, I'll eventually get used to it. But I just sort of get lost for now. But yeah, I still think SN is the best option -- the shop was automatic.

No need for mods to subtracts coins, it was all instantly done and reflected in your inventory -- that was a mayor win in my book.

If Lanorae stays in PB I'll stay, I won't lie, but I can't say I'll be fully happy. I dunno, I just think PB is not the correct place to host Lanorae. I just feel Lanorae can't develop to his 100% power. And I think it's just extra stress on Ayra, and more than the needed amount of time wasted on trying to make Proboards show everything how you want it.

But yeah, either way I would stay. I just think it could be so much better in SN, and so much easier for Ayra too. And, with less having to try nd go around every dumb thing ProBoard does with coding, I think Ayra could actually complete things in the deadlines she sets -- without stressing herself too much.

I'd just say give it one last try. And if SN backfires horribly and just doesn;t work, then we stay on PB.

[Spiderc]

alright, i've been avoiding posting, cause i've been telling myself and ayra that i don't care either way... unfortunately, the more i think about it, the more i realize that it's a lie, i actually like PB. i'm used to it, and that's all that i've ever used for roleplaying, since joining kanoa a very long time ago, back when i had no idea how make a post sound even remotely interesting.

and as simple as kanoa was, it worked. cy and jake didn't put in any fancy coding or really any non-typical designs, because it didn't need it, it was about the community. now, before anyone thinks i dislike what ayra has done, they're dead wrong. i love the layout, i love the money system, and i love the site, but my point is that maybe we don't need anything more. maybe what we have so far is enough.

as i said before, kanoa worked because of the community and the roleplaying. once again, not to insult ayra, but i think that's the solution. roleplaying and not special codes. once we start roleplaying again, we'll get new members and an improved community, not just the same 9 or 10 people coming on everyday to nothing new.


in case i've been rambling (more than likely) and no one knows what i've been talking about, i'll just sum up what i think:

As great as everything that Ayra has put in is, I don't think that's the point of a Role-Playing site. The purpose is the RPing and from what I've seen, simplicity is sometimes best.

[Administrator]

Before I say anything, yay for being able to hijack my uncle's phone and get Internet xD Anyways

The fact of the matter is both Spider and Rex are right concerning the community. That is what it's all about. The fact I'm throwing all this extra stuff on is because I'm a perfectionist and that's just what I need to do to keep myself pleased with my work and, in my opinion, able to better compete with other sites.

But, concerning the auto-shop, I'll be perfectly honest, trying to figure out how to get multiple seperate shops gave me the most headache out of anything, and there's not even a guarantee the plan I had to get around it would work.

As I mentioned, eventually we may very well move to our own server, and then I could do anything whatsoever with forums or whatnot, but yeah.

But I'm eating breakfast and then going canoeing, so I'm out =P

[♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥]

So long as the site is great and the comunity is stable more people will come and flock over, even if we are on SN, PB or whereever the hell else. I liked SN, not due to the HTML pretty posting boxes (I can live without those), because it looked /clean/ and simple. I'm a very visual person, Lanorae in PB simply looks too crowded and tightly packed -- in my opinion at least. I liked the navigation in SN, and the little bonuses.

If people are scared of it being too different, remember it's completely customizable -- Ayra can make it as close as PB as possible -- but still have a heck of a lot easier time updating stuff and layout and CSS/HTML whatever else she wants to do for plots and stuff.

I agree the comunity is important, but those extra details Ayra is always inputting due to her perfectionism is what really makes Lanorae unique and so successful -- no doubt it could become even greater in a place where she has full freedom to customize. It's all about bieng different (both in comunity and in everything else), jumping out of the page and dazzling people. Once that's done good members will always flock over, no matter what place the role playing is hosted on. But visual things affect a person just as much as the role play quality.

If you want to compete you have to excell in all areas, not just one. It's the reason why many good and awesome quality pokemon boards always die in the long run.

The way I see it, we should at least give SN a try -- not cross it out the lit completely because "it's new and different and looks complex and I've roleplayed all my life in pb and it's out of my comfort zone," etc. I'll admit, it is a scary thing -- I remember when I first ventured away from PB into IF, and fell in love with the later for the more fredom it had, compared to PB. Heck, I still think IF owns PB in anything and everything. But that's another topic.

But yeah, those are my other two cents in the matter.

[RATED R FOR REX]

pff. i kept telling myself that i shouldn't post again. but here i am. 8D

to be honest, rizu, i couldn't disagree more. i think what makes a roleplaying site "unique" would be the plot and the idea of the site. mainly because, once ayra puts something on lanorae that other people find it interesting on a site, they can always click view source and steal it and put it on their site, and suddenly, we're not "unique" anymore. and i've seen things like this happen. i say that when it comes to things like this, it's all plot and the people who roleplay. when i look for a good site to join, i check out the plot, and then stalk through the forums to see how good the roleplaying quality is. then i join. the new quirks or little oddities that the admin added to the forum doesn't matter with me, because i know how to navigate proboards or ar or invisionfree just by default.

and as for ar looking cleaner and simpler, it's all based on opinion. i thought the steampunk layout for pb-lanorae was a lot cleaner looking than anything i've ever seen on ar. probably because i think simplicity > anything else. but still.

and yes, invisionfree > pb. ;D

but i'm still sticking to the opinion that a roleplaying site's greatest concern (and weapon if we're talking about competing against other sites) would be the roleplaying quality and the plot and the community. as pretty as the site is, i'm not joining a site if everyone's clique-y or if everyone's posting one liners. from what i can tell, lanorae is active and friendly and literate. not as literate as some other sites i know (but they post like, 1000 words per post, so.) but much much better than "lily walked through the grass searching for pokemon."

and rizu, i think you misunderstood me. i've tried out sites placed in ar before. finished sites, literate sites, really good sites. but i just couldn't handle ar. the forum system screwed me up and it took me an hour just to get one post up. not the typing part, but the finding it and trying to post it up and having to edit it b/c there's no preview button and omg. D8

but anyway. i'm not going to post here anymore, i promise. P:

[♥.:.RizuChan.:.♥]

Yes, quality is the main point, I never said any different, but I find visuals also affect a lot. First of all, you jump out of the page, and people immediately recognize you. Yes, other people can try to steal it and copy it (though I'm sure there has to be a script or something that prevents ctrl + u) but everyone already knows it's yours: so no matter how much they try they'll fail, and just look like wannabes. I'll be honest, sites that actually put just as much effort to plan out their appearance as they put for amazing plots and role plays are the ones that keep me interested the longest.

'Cause, let's face it, we eventually get visually bored and have those "bleh, I dun wanna post even though I know I have x ammount of threads pending" days. TO me they amoutnto getting visually tired -- not tired of reading -- of looking at the same dull and monotone background almost all sites seem to have. Basically almost none of them bother to change it and make it look different, and though it's always a pain inthe ass at first and we all go "omg, where's all teh shit, it's not where it was before?! @a@" for a few days, eventually we settle back down and everything moves normally.

I know I'm betting used to this layout finally, the Abyss up there taking spaces was making me go all wtf, finally found what the problem was, as well as the lack of pretty icons on the boards to show ones with new posts/threads and inactive ones.

I'm a vain thing. >:

But that aside, we alreayd know Ayra makes epic plots that keep us at the edges of our seat shouting to the monitor 'cause we want a damned update to know what happens next 100% of the times. And we already know Lanorae is popular, people want to affiliate with it still even though they know we're down and in progress of re-opening. Most other sites immediately get taken off any ad roosters when they fall into this stage. So Lanorae is definitely doing everything, or most things, right. What she isn't able to fulfill here in PB is her desire of being a perfectionist -- she's perfect to a T in the lots, but she can't get Lanorae to look how /she/ visualizes it, 'cause PB is a pregnant dog.

And I believe Ayra can modify the forums to make them very similar to the ones here. Heck, we don't even need fancy HTML boxes to post on, we can post normally just like we do here. There has to be a guide on how to add preview buttons around, and she already said you can stuck the boards so they don't move when people post. So I really don't see a problem there. I do believe Ayra can mold it to her desire, and ours, she's an CSS/HTML/any other code in existance Godess. XDD

I just don't see why we can't /try/ it. let Ayra code both at the same time as she said, and give SN one lastlook and try once everything is in place and perfectly moving. See what things annoy us and try to edit them so everyone is happy.

And, if it ultimately just doesn't work, then just move back here and keep going on as if nothing ever happened. I'd rather we try it and say it didn't worked -- than not trying it and wonder what it could have been.

And please, keep posting -- that's the whole purpose of this thing. To debate and keep bringing out different points of view. :3